View Full Version : As much as I hate Apple.....
RepubliDAN
09-09-2005, 01:42 AM
I think they win. Dell can never compete. They are good players but so boring and they never come out with anything new.
BinaryRaven
09-09-2005, 02:46 AM
I agree, the ipod name alone will carry the mp3 player for a long time. We live in a society of insecurities and labels, walk around with your mp3 player on a subway and the guy next to you will automatically think it's an ipod, Then tell him it's not an ipod the person will probably think "oh, it's not a ipod..phh" that's very powerful, and Apple uses it well.
ipod is a solid player and I understand why everyone wants one (hell, I have one) but we have options, and that's the reason we own dell dj's. There are just as good, and if not better alternatives to the ipod, but like they say you can't lead a horse to water, people will eventually figure that out once the market becomes saturated with the device and you see everyone with white ear buds. Not to mention because of apples constant whoring of the product it's become a status symbol, like a louie-vuitton purse, or driving a bens. It's good business for apple but since I'm not an elitist I could really care less, I just want something affordable with a good amount of space that plays my music and that doesn't get in the way of my daily life.
Also another reason why Apple is so popular is because there isn't a lot marketing for other mp3 players in the public eye. If Dell, Creative, Sony, Toshiba and other player makers would aggressively market there products (not just in tech magazines) it will make people think about other player’s not just ipod. If people don't take the time to look into things, and all they see is apple, what else are they going to buy?
:rant2:
Kailess
09-09-2005, 03:14 AM
I agree. I just watched the QuickTime presentation Gates gave for the iPod Nano and I gotta give it to them - they know how to make sweet looking products and they know how to market the heck out of them. After watching the presentation I want a Nano! It's so small and slick looking. ("Only as thick as a #2 pencil!") And a color screen. I'm itching for a color screen to display album art. Whah!!
http://images.apple.com/home/2005/images/ipodnanohand20050907.jpg
http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/2041/842/store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/ips_cp_ipodx_half1_050907.jpg
http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/2041/842/store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/ips_cp_ipodx_half2_050907.jpg
davinp
09-09-2005, 08:26 AM
Some people may thing iPod is the only MP3 player and just buy that, because everyone has one, without researching other MP3 Players.
Nova_442
09-09-2005, 02:30 PM
Yes there are many good players besides the iPod (more feature packed players around the same price) and players with equal or greater storage space for less money.
iPods are good though. I don't think they'll be dethroned as an mp3 player for a long while, and won't lose in portable media until we all have PVPs as the main device.
comfortablyNUMB
09-09-2005, 03:06 PM
Steve Jobs is a genious IMO. He knew exactly how to get this thing to sell. You see it all over the place. It's on TV. It's in all the stores..and it's god the name. The player is basic and easy to use, and the software is a breeze, which is also a good thing. Steve Jobs just kept the iPod simple, but with a great design...and he advertised it enough to make people think that they must have an iPod. Jobs realizes that the general public, but more importantly kids my age, will not do much research before buying an mp3 player. And even if they do, Apples website for the iPods gives you the impression that your really gonna be happy with this product...sometimes other companies don't have a good amount or concise info on their product pages. Anyway, with kids not doing the research, all they know is the iPod commercials and the iPods they see in the stores' windows. Once they see the iPods, they just have to have one...and parents that know less than these kids about technology will get all of them iPod minis for Christmas.
skauff83
09-09-2005, 03:27 PM
The iPod is really the product of Apple's marketing department. They only reason it sells so well is because you see commercials for it every two seconds, or ads in magazines. Sure the design is good, but is it really that great, or is itunes that great, or does apple just lead you to believe this? It's the most popular, and people always equate popularity to the best, which isn't always the case. I can live with the fact that it's most popular, and that everyone wants it. It's just the rabid fanboys that don't even consider anything else, and throw out stupid reasons why it's good, like its "simple interface" which is a load of crap, especially since it's Creative's patent, or refuse to say that they just want it because it's cool. If they give valid reasons, then I can live with that, even if it is because iPod is the mainstream player, as long as they say so.
comfortablyNUMB
09-09-2005, 04:14 PM
I hate how places like Cnet call the DJ a player with no extra besides it playing music, and fall in love with the amazing iPod. The only features an iPod has over the DJ is an alarm clock and some stupid games (i've played the games, theyre not great at all). Dell comes with pretty good software, looks pretty good (although some people don't think so), and is just about the same size as an iPod. However, Cnet is supposed to know about what's inside these players; it's not just about looks. The DJ has almost the most storage for players that are Janus compatible; the iPod doesn't even have a subcription service (yet...). The DJ plays mp3, wma, protected wma; the iPod only plays mp3 and aac. The DJ has dedicated is one of the only players to have dedicated volume buttons; the you have to use the scrollweel to change volume when in the Now Playing screen. You can save, name, and scroll through playlists while there playing on the DJ, playlist made on the iPod are just saved as On-The-Go 1 and On-the-go 2; it seems like the DJ is one of the only players that you can look at the list of "selected music." In players like the iPod, you can only see the song thats playing but not the list of selected music. This is something I really like about my DJ. I just hate how Cnet describes the DJ, and I hate how they bash players w/o volume buttons but don't really care about the buttons on the DJ. And how they don't even mention that the DJ is great more managing playlists right from the DJ. I hate how they love the iPod so much, when its really just a basic 20 gig player with no features.
skauff83
09-09-2005, 04:38 PM
On the Zen Sleek review, CNet listed the fact that it wasn't compatible with itunes as a big minus. Is that not the dumbest thing you've ever heard?
If your gonna do that, why don't they talk about how the iPod can only use itunes, unlike the many programs that other players work with other players. Or the fact it won't play wma's.
ROFL!!! Not compatible with iTunes? Thats just like saying the iPod is not compatible with WMA. Wow those reviewers need to be unbiased and start basing the products on what it can do vs what it can't.
I was just laughing as I read the review:
http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/digitalmusic/0,39029994,39191727,00.htm
eagle87311
09-09-2005, 05:05 PM
i agree completely with the previos two posts (plus others)
its th advetising that sells it
its not (that much) better than any other player out ther, juts gets given more exposure. the DJ uses the EXACT SAME type of interface, but has a few more powerful options, and less trivial things (games).
itunes ONLY works with apple products, and apple products ONLY work with iTunes (unless you get into paralegal/mostly illegal conversions)
IMHO, as of this day, the DJ is one of the top players, over the iPod. in the future, things may change. but i don't see it happening. if apple can spend small change in R&D but still make craploads of money through advertising and name, why would they do more?
comfortablyNUMB
09-09-2005, 06:24 PM
On the Zen Sleek review, CNet listed the fact that it wasn't compatible with itunes as a big minus. Is that not the dumbest thing you've ever heard?
If your gonna do that, why don't they talk about how the iPod can only use itunes, unlike the many programs that other players work with other players. Or the fact it won't play wma's.
That is a complete joke. This is close to making me never go to cnet.com again. If it was James Kim sayiing this, they editor for cnet america, I would never log on to cnet.com again.
Balinsky
09-09-2005, 07:13 PM
On the Zen Sleek review, CNet listed the fact that it wasn't compatible with itunes as a big minus. Is that not the dumbest thing you've ever heard?
If your gonna do that, why don't they talk about how the iPod can only use itunes, unlike the many programs that other players work with other players. Or the fact it won't play wma's.
Yea especially since itunes is the biggest piece of crap pc library manager there is. I tried to use it extensively at a friends house and you can't even navigate to your music. Even Windows media player can do that. His itunes didn't even display album art. and even the ipod itself can do that.
Oh and you can use the ipod with other programs. Not just itunes. For example MediaMonkey.
The iPod is really the product of Apple's marketing department. They only reason it sells so well is because you see commercials for it every two seconds, or ads in magazines. Sure the design is good, but is it really that great, or is itunes that great, or does apple just lead you to believe this? It's the most popular, and people always equate popularity to the best, which isn't always the case. I can live with the fact that it's most popular, and that everyone wants it. It's just the rabid fanboys that don't even consider anything else, and throw out stupid reasons why it's good, like its "simple interface" which is a load of crap, especially since it's Creative's patent, or refuse to say that they just want it because it's cool. If they give valid reasons, then I can live with that, even if it is because iPod is the mainstream player, as long as they say so.
That's actually not true at all. The iPod is a solid device. Plain and simple. It's got a clean interface, and you HAVE to admit that. Creative may have won the patent on it, but that doesn't mean anything. Seems that they just applied for the patent first, while Apple was the one that popularized it.
And yes, like it or not, the design is that great. It's clean, simple and elegant. It kinda hurts me to say it, but the iPod is very pretty.
iTunes, at first, is a hassle to use after only using Winamp for so long. But after a little bit, it becomes really easy to use. And syncing with the iPod is pretty good, too.
Also, for all the rabid Apple fanboys, there are other fanboys for the other players just as bad. There are the rabid iPod bashers that just bash iPod for being iPod. And you know, it's sad, too. Why complain about different bloody players when they all do what they're supposed to, which is allow us to listen to our music.
I just hate that it's no longer become about listening to music while on the go, but about the type of player you have and what is better and what is worse and hating on everything. Anyway, I'm no longer making sense, so this is where I stop.
like its "simple interface" which is a load of crap, especially since it's Creative's patent.
In my opinion Creative never should have gotten that patent. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to award this patent to any company. A user-interface using an hierarchical structure is far too simple and has been in use by not only Apple, but almost every other mp3 player company.
I really do think that the iPod is the all around best player. I don't really think that's the main reason why it's selling so well (if it was a crappy player, then people wouldn't buy it). The main reason why it sells so well is because of advertising.
BinaryRaven
09-09-2005, 08:24 PM
That is a complete joke. This is close to making me never go to cnet.com again. If it was James Kim sayiing this, they editor for cnet america, I would never log on to cnet.com again.
When I was shopping around for a new MP3 player I went to CNET and almost every player I read a review on was always compared to ipod. They always put down (some reviews came off a little smug, and snobish) the player if it wasn't like the ipod, like the ipod was on some pedistal. Yes, The ipod is a great mp3 player but get off apples nuts already, instead of commenting on how it should be similiar to the pod, comment on how it should be BETTER than the pod (there are other mp3 players out there that is better than the ipod). I also dislike when reviewers say "Oh it's just a plain bare bones mp3 player" mp3 players are supposed to be an mp3 player FIRST, and everything else second I could care less if I can play a fricken game, or set up a date on it; I bought it and will buy it because it plays music, everything else are just added perks don't give it negative points because you can't play space invaders on it. :throwcomp
skauff83
09-09-2005, 09:29 PM
Ahh, everybody's quoting me!!! Instead of quoting everyone else, I'll address it all.
On the interface-
The fact that every music player uses this structure was precisely my point. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people say that they like the iPod because it's so much simpler to use than all of the other players, even though the menus are all structured the same way. I don't care whose patent it is, and I agree with Dino; it's too simplistic an idea to be patented. The reason I mentioned it was because I find it ironic that people always talk about the simple interface of the iPod, when in fact it is technically another company's patent.
Itunes
I never said Itunes was a bad piece of software. I don't care for it myself, but that's just me. But is it really that great that it is the gold standard for all mp3 player software? The fact that I dislike Itunes is a good reason for me not to get an iPod- you can really only use Itunes (maybe some other, lesser known things, such as the afforementioned mediamonkey) and not things like WMP, etc. that I feel more comfortable with. If you can list non-Itunes support as a negative, why can't you list no support for other programs as a negative for the iPod? I just read a review on Cnet, and this was never mentioned, nor was the fact that Itunes doesn't play WMA files. Now, just at least say that it *might* be a problem if you dislike itunes, or have a lot of WMA files. The fact that it's not mentioned is annoying.
Quality of the player
I do think the iPod is a good player. Is it the best? That's debatable. I can't just say it's the best, nor can I say the dj is the best, or any of Creative's players. They're all so similar, that I don't think you can pick one and say "this is it". Certainly the iPod is the most popular, but that doesn't mean it's the best. If you like OSX, or Linux, you probably believe they are both better than Windows, but Windows is far more popular. Does this mean it's the best OS? Not really. But there's almost no point in anyone advertising any other DAP. You just can't win. If it's a lot different than the iPod, it gets points taken off for not looking like the "standard". But if it looks a lot like an iPod, then it's hated for being an iPod knockoff.
That's all for now.
musicisneeded
09-09-2005, 09:37 PM
well i still think its popular because thats the player everyone has. people still call my dell an ipod (including my parents)
a girl in my latin class today got asked about her ipod (it was a flash player with her moms ipod phones). i however was asked to put away my dell (i had differant headphones,than the dell ones, but there werent ipod phones)
Ahh, everybody's quoting me!!! Instead of quoting everyone else, I'll address it all.
On the interface-
The fact that every music player uses this structure was precisely my point. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people say that they like the iPod because it's so much simpler to use than all of the other players, even though the menus are all structured the same way. I don't care whose patent it is, and I agree with Dino; it's too simplistic an idea to be patented. The reason I mentioned it was because I find it ironic that people always talk about the simple interface of the iPod, when in fact it is technically another company's patent.
Itunes
I never said Itunes was a bad piece of software. I don't care for it myself, but that's just me. But is it really that great that it is the gold standard for all mp3 player software? The fact that I dislike Itunes is a good reason for me not to get an iPod- you can really only use Itunes (maybe some other, lesser known things, such as the afforementioned mediamonkey) and not things like WMP, etc. that I feel more comfortable with. If you can list non-Itunes support as a negative, why can't you list no support for other programs as a negative for the iPod? I just read a review on Cnet, and this was never mentioned, nor was the fact that Itunes doesn't play WMA files. Now, just at least say that it *might* be a problem if you dislike itunes, or have a lot of WMA files. The fact that it's not mentioned is annoying.
Quality of the player
I do think the iPod is a good player. Is it the best? That's debatable. I can't just say it's the best, nor can I say the dj is the best, or any of Creative's players. They're all so similar, that I don't think you can pick one and say "this is it". Certainly the iPod is the most popular, but that doesn't mean it's the best. If you like OSX, or Linux, you probably believe they are both better than Windows, but Windows is far more popular. Does this mean it's the best OS? Not really. But there's almost no point in anyone advertising any other DAP. You just can't win. If it's a lot different than the iPod, it gets points taken off for not looking like the "standard". But if it looks a lot like an iPod, then it's hated for being an iPod knockoff.
That's all for now.
You know what, I pretty much agree completely with what you say. Although I still think the iPod is the all-around best mp3 player.
TheBigNewt
09-10-2005, 01:36 AM
Having used both the DJ and 2 ipod models (G1 and mini), in our household the DJ wins, and the reason is that you can create a playlist on the go and name it (Swmr said it in his post). You cannot do that with an ipod. You cannot find a song/artist/album on the ipod as fast as you can on the DJ. You cannot do a custom EQ as fast or as easily. But a color screen is a must, and Dell will either come out with one or die like Rio. Don't you think that's true?
comfortablyNUMB
09-10-2005, 08:32 AM
Yep. If Dell came out with a player with a little smaller form facter and a color screen, I would want to buy it. I think the DJ is the best with playlists, better than any player because of what Newt said and because of what I said. The DJ is the only player I know that has the option of viewing "selected music." I mean that you can search through all the songs you're listening on your current playlist, whether it's a saved playlist or songs you just added to the list. I don't know any other player that does this.
Batman
09-12-2005, 05:48 PM
If companies like Dell, Sony, Toshiba, and Creative would just market their products a little better maybe apple wouldn't have like 99% of the market. First off, the name, iPod, it just sounds cool. I love my Dell but, c'mon, DJ, honestly; please Dell change the name to something more original. Remember 5 or 6 years ago you bought a new cd player and what did you look for, Walkman! The name just matched the thing perfectly. And another thing, apple updates their line of iPods every 6 months just to stay on top of the competition. Dell on the other hand still has not considered a color screen or making the unit thinner. IMO its not much different than the original DJ.
I know Dell and the other companies can do better. Maybe its because the iPod is the only thing keeping apple afloat can it afford so much effort into its mp3 divisoin, whereas Sony has computers, TVs, camcorders, PS3, digital cameras, dvd players, and a plethora of other electronics it has to balance.
Maybe its because the iPod is the only thing keeping apple afloat can it afford so much effort into its mp3 divisoin, whereas Sony has computers, TVs, camcorders, PS3, digital cameras, dvd players, and a plethora of other electronics it has to balance.
Apple also makes computers. It may not seem like they much money off of that, but they do.
fomoco
09-13-2005, 12:38 PM
Just to clear things up a bit....
The DJ plays mp3, wma, protected wma; the iPod only plays mp3 and aac.
The iPod supports AAC, Audible, ALAC, AIFF, MP3, and WAV.
Also, iTunes Win automatically transcodes non-DRM WMA files into any selected format when adding to the library.
musicisneeded
09-13-2005, 03:00 PM
yea but the wmas that get converted lose quality
.....and several programs like Real Player convert the non-DRM encoded AAC files to either WMA or MP3 on transfer so that the DJ can read it.
But when it comes to songs purchased online or ripped from a CD (which now only allow you to use the WMA format) those cannot be converted to any other format besides the one intended.
comfortablyNUMB
09-13-2005, 04:25 PM
Apple also makes computers. It may not seem like they much money off of that, but they do.
Yeah, but Apple does not have much marketshare with their macs at all. And because of this, iPod has become a main priority for them. Look at other companies with DAPs such as Dell, Samsung and Toshiba. Dell has plenty of marketshare with their computers, Samsung makes a million other things such as phones and flash/HD memory, and Toshiba also makes other things like the HD's. Creative is also a company that makes other things sound-related. And companies like iRiver and Archos are very successful in Europe too. None of the first 3 companies look at a DAP as a top priority. Apple needs the iPod to sell because they can't just depend on Macs forever.
^What matters more is the amount of money they make off of products. Last I heard, the iPod accounted for one third of Apple's income. Yes, that's a pretty big amount, but what about the other two thirds? The truth is, Apple still makes more money selling macs then selling iPods. Both iPods and macs are very important and either one suddenly being dropped from some weird reason has the potential to kill them off (if they were to stop selling macs, they'd have a higher chance of dyeing off).
comfortablyNUMB
09-13-2005, 11:02 PM
Well yeah your right, but I'm guess what I'm saying is that the Ipod if more important to Apple than the DJ is to Dell or some of Samsung's players are to Samsung.
^And I completely agree. :)
snaimpally
09-16-2005, 02:36 AM
The iPod is really the product of Apple's marketing department. They only reason it sells so well is because you see commercials for it every two seconds, or ads in magazines. Sure the design is good, but is it really that great, or is itunes that great, or does apple just lead you to believe this? It's the most popular, and people always equate popularity to the best, which isn't always the case. I can live with the fact that it's most popular, and that everyone wants it. It's just the rabid fanboys that don't even consider anything else, and throw out stupid reasons why it's good, like its "simple interface" which is a load of crap, especially since it's Creative's patent, or refuse to say that they just want it because it's cool. If they give valid reasons, then I can live with that, even if it is because iPod is the mainstream player, as long as they say so.
Well, for one thing, the ipod design is innovative. Apple made the market. There were mp3 players around before but Apple has made this market. Dell's philosophy is to NEVER make the market. They wait for others to establish the market and then enter. Dell's innovation is how to make the thing (computer, laptop, etc) as cheap as possible. Apple files design and utility patents. Dell files patents on their manufacturing process. Dell is the Walmart of computers because they are the price leader. We bought DJs because of the price. Great bang for the buck.
But Apple has the cool factor because they are the innovators in design and UI. And its not just that Apple is great, but their designs are unique, they have great user interfaces on their products like the wheel and the click wheel. Simple, but well thought out, no gotchas.
Look at the nano. Its so small and cool. They know how to engineer stuff. They are out Sony-ing Sony. Sony used to be the innovator in cool, small stuff. They invented the walkman. But Apple is the one innovating in mp3 players.
dissident
09-18-2005, 12:42 PM
Perfectly stated.
RepubliDAN
09-21-2005, 08:04 PM
I have a Cowon iaudio x5 now, which is 100 times better than an ipod, and people still think their ipods are better. Cowon isn't a big name so most people don't know about it. I know I love it though.
Cowon is a big name for those who have done research on MP3 players.....
RepubliDAN
09-21-2005, 08:22 PM
I don't know if anyone has made this comparison before but don't you think iPod will be to MP3 players what Walkman/Discman did for portable Cassette/CD players? People will probably always call them iPods. I really can't stand the hard on that everyone has for those things but whatever, I'm not going to argue over MP3 players.
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